Changing the transmission of a Citroen DS23ie...

"Flavien Vidal" (flyingfrenchy) 02/23/2016 at 00:43 • Filed to: None

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... Is a freaking mess!! It’s the hydromatic too, which is insanely heavy (100kg or so).

This is the new transmission that I brought back from France... It will be put back in after tomorrow. Hoping that 2 days of work on the car will be enough to have it driveable again. What an hydraulic freaking mess!

Berang > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 01:08

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Did you get a picture of those weird axles?

Flavien Vidal > Berang 02/23/2016 at 01:13

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Oh no, we removed everything... I’ll snap one when we put everything back in place...

pip bip - choose Corrour > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 01:35

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gotta love French engineering!

His Stigness > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 01:38

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Wait a second so this thing really is ass backwards?

Flavien Vidal > His Stigness 02/23/2016 at 01:45

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Not sure what you mean by that, but yes, the transmission seat on the front of the car... Many french cars were like this at the time. It is technically an “MF” car, with engine behind the wheel axles but the transmisssion hanging out in the front. The Renault 4L is the most famous exemple of a car with a transmission in front of the engine...

It would be like taking a Porsche 911, then deciding to make it FWD, while keeping the original engine and transmission.

His Stigness > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 01:50

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I didn’t mean ass backwards in a bad way, but in that they switched the engine and trans, like your example if a 911.

What was the advantage of this? Same as modern FWD but they just hadn't figured out how to mount engines transverse?

Flavien Vidal > His Stigness 02/23/2016 at 02:05

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Oh I understood that don’t worry :)

I thought you may have been wodering whether the engine was in the trunk or something in that picture :)

Less drive train power loss I guess... Since the differential is actually INSIDE the transmission...

MultiplaOrgasms > His Stigness 02/23/2016 at 03:00

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Until the 1964 Autobianchi Primula nobody could really figure out a transverse FWD with unequal length Driveshafts. The FM FWD is a holdover from the early days of FWD, as it was the simplest design for a large engined FWD. North-South FWD either required a compact engine like a boxer or a V4 (See Citroën A-types (Boxer), Ford P4 (V4), Lancia Fulvia (V4), Flavia (Boxer), Subarus (Boxer)) or a huge front overhang (Audi, a legacy of the three cylinder DKWs that preceded them).

Clemsie McKenzie > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 05:00

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To the brave man working on old Citroens, Oppo sends its deepest salute.

Flavien Vidal > Clemsie McKenzie 02/23/2016 at 05:23

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And it will take longer than expected... After checking on the clutch itself, we decided to replace it. That means ordering it from France.

Funny thing is that the clutch will come from a city only 20km away from my home in Bretagne. Yet, I can’t just go and pick it up like I normally would since I’m 10000km away :)

That's gonna leave a mark! > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 05:50

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Would you have to do almost this amount of work if just replacing the clutch?

Flavien Vidal > That's gonna leave a mark! 02/23/2016 at 05:54

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Yes it would be the exact same amount of work... Front fenders were removed for access ease but yes, it is THAT much work. Originally we had planned to just change the transmission, but considering how much work is required, might as well get a new clutch while we’re at it lol...

Cé hé sin > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 06:37

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It might look a mess but at least you can take off so many panels that access is kind of easy. Kind of...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 06:39

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Kudos to you good sir. That is one heck of a job. Are you replacing it with another hydromatic? Generally old ID/DS are surprisingly reliable if treated well, but I’ve heard the hydromatics can be a bit less so....were you swapping in another hydromatic, or a manual?

Flavien Vidal > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/23/2016 at 06:44

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Yes, it’s an hydromatic... The gearbox itself is fine but the differential is broken... so we swap the entire thing and we’ll figure out how to repair the diff later on.

I’m not alone to work on this... Actually I’m the one who work the less in the group lol. We are 3. Still help out though, but the whole hydraulic system is just really really messy and complicated.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 06:46

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“...the whole hydraulic system is just really really messy and complicated”

So you’re just saying that it’s a Citroën hydraulic system then? :P

Berang > His Stigness 02/23/2016 at 06:47

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check out my posts on front wheel drive history:

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/some-interesti…

The engine behind the axle location was pretty much used because it was the simplest way to drive the front wheels.

Flavien Vidal > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/23/2016 at 06:49

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I’m sure that once you understand a bit more how things work, it’s simpler than it looks... But we are just unmounting and mounting a puzzle right now... So it does look very complicated :)

KatzManDu > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 07:40

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I’ve always been intrigued by the possibility of a 1.8L/2.0L Audi/VW drivetrain swap into a DS. A proper amount of horsepower for the car, plus turbo, and just use a plain-jane manual transmission.

Flavien Vidal > KatzManDu 02/23/2016 at 07:51

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Well, this specific DS is a DS23ie with the DX5 141hp engine... It’s not slow...

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 07:55

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That looks terrifying

KatzManDu > Flavien Vidal 02/23/2016 at 08:14

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Everything remotely close to my price range is an ID19 Special. :( I’d just be happy with a mushroom brake pedal.

Flavien Vidal > KatzManDu 02/23/2016 at 08:36

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Yeah the ID19 is a bit of a pig.... but it has a manual transmission, so it compensates :)